A rant? An excuse? I don't know.

[salvaenus]

Mar 26, 2010 14:23:37 GMT -5 Spiritusrex said:

*PG13 Warning*
This would make me so happy I would not mind if I was a lame nitwit, as I would be happy and gay as a clam being sucked all the time.

So that is where the saying happy as a clam came from!

[balthazario]

I would hazard to guess that the vast majority of teenagers do NOT relate the word "lame" to mean anything about disabled.

No more than the average person sees the word "that's gross" and thinks it's 144.

Yes, there are people that DO associate the two, but not many.

The unfortunate thing is that human beings find a number of things unpeasant (pain, underperforming engines, tests, ad infinitum) and we will quickly look for ways to describe or name the unpleasantness.

The vast majority of people do not like to say (let alone write/type) out multiple words in order to "verbailze" a moderately unpleasant emotion or attitude.

Hence we get "This test sucks" instead of "This test is unpleasant". One , brevity is easier, faster and less tongue tie worthy, and there is also the fact that shorter phrases generally carry more impact. (Put exclamation points on the ends of both sentences, and tell me which one resonates more.)

It is rather unpleasant how many words get coopted into everyday use, but it is a fact of life. My personal fave-hatred is the use of "rape" in a gaming context. "Oh man, we raped those dudes"

whu?

the sad thing is that things also work in reverse. People get so unsettled by a name for something, that they refuse to use the real word. Euphamisms galore.

My recent run-in with this is with a few families of children with Downes Syndrome. They refuse to use that name and refer to them as being "angel children" or just "angels". They were not using them as words of specific affection, they were using it as a label.

"How is your angel doing?" instead of "How is your child with Downes doing?" and would get geniunely upset is someone DID use the word proper name for it.

I guess my point is that intent is a huge part of it. When a kid says something sucks, they are NOT thinking "this particular thing reminds me of fellatio", they simply don't like it.

When they call something lame, a maimed limb is the farthest thing from their minds.

If a person gets offended, I guess they have every right to be, since a literal interpretation could be taken as an offensive statement. But a slightly more practical view may not be such a bad thing...

[pewter]

they are NOT thinking "this particular thing reminds me of fellatio", they simply don't like it.

I'm sure those of us who are trying to stop being ableist in this way can understand that people don't realise the parrallels they are drawing due to the ubiquitous use of such a word. It doesn't really change the wider implications or the attitudes behind using such words (medically retarded people as 'broken' and worthless, and the same with 'lame' or 'gay'.) Val has already made this point, and to be honest it kind of misses the point that those who are against the use of such words is trying to make.

Telling a disabled person, or a homosexual, or a woman, or a rape victim that they should not get angry because 'it is not practical' does no one good in the end, any more than saying women should put up with sexual harassment in the gaming industry because that's just the way it is: a post on that particular topic that is worth reading.

[valgav]

I don't think I missed anything. I understand the point that people are being offended by obsolete definitions or unwarranted parallels, I just don't think those people should be catered to.

Oh and one other thing that came to mind:

'Mentally retarded' was originally the 'pc' way to say moron or idiot. (Which were originally terms to label the mentally handicapped. And btw 'handicapped' is becoming an offensive word) You couldn't call people who were mentally challenged morons or halfwits, that was offensive. The proper term given to it was 'mentally retarded'. However as the word retarded grew into popular use it gained the same negative connotations as moron, so now we can't use that.

Handicapped was the proper way to refer to someone with a disability without applying a negative connotation. But now that term seems to imply that there's something weak about the person so now we use the word 'challenged'. I figure in five or ten years 'challenged' will have the same connotation and we'll be using some other term that just means 'different'.

The fact of the matter is we will always find terms to address the differences in us, and some people will use those terms as weapons. Said weapons will become blunt with overuse and discarded by the original wielders in lieu of a new more jagged instrument of discrimination.

Words aren't the problem, people are. And people need to judge the usage of the language by the person using it, not the people who have used it before.

[salvaenus]

are you Gevlon in disguise?

[valgav]

As I gather, I wouldn't particularly like Gevlon or his modus operandi. I do however like to make sure that people don't trod all over the weak. So if some asshat decides to moronically stomp all over the social consciousness, I stomp equally hard in the opposite direction to maintain some semblance of reason and freedom of expression.

Again, no offense intended directly. This is more a statement of purpose, vulgarity used very tongue-in-cheek. I don't mean to say that anyone who posted here is an asshat or moron.

[salvaenus]

Mar 31, 2010 9:58:08 GMT -5 valgav said:

The fact of the matter is we will always find terms to address the differences in us, and some people will use those terms as weapons. Said weapons will become blunt with overuse and discarded by the original wielders in lieu of a new more jagged instrument of discrimination.

Words aren't the problem, people are. And people need to judge the usage of the language by the person using it, not the people who have used it before.

Then we should look for ways of not stressing the differences but rather the things we have in common. Words are but vessels in which you put your thoughts and feelings. Without words how would you express yourself. Smoke signals? Given you cannot take into consideration how someone may interpret the meaning you thought to convey with a phrase,, there will be misunderstandings BUT purposely using words that in a certain day and age are considered unsavory is "moronically stomp(ing) all over the social consciousness" A good speaker has to be heedful of his audience.

[balthazario]

One question: how SHOULD we, as linguistic people, refer to people we don't like, or whose actions point to certain social, emotional or intellecutal problems?

Obviously, blatant hate words are a no-no. But how far do we water our language down?

As Val pointed out, "idiot", "retarded", and "moron" are actually all technical words for intellectual disabilities that describes a person of reduced cognitive ability.

Similar issues come up when we use derogatory language to describe other personal flaws.

I think someone could find pretty much any negative word and find a justification to be offended by it.

Overall, I think people have a social obligation to not be blatantly, intentionally offensive. That being said, I do not feel we have ANY obligation to make sure we don't offend ANYBODY.

Reasonable Person rule for the win:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person

[salvaenus]

I think it would have a positive effect when we would refrain from name calling and concentrate on the emotions that we are experiencing. Instead of "omg this dungeon sucks!" perhaps a "wordy" person would say "omg this this dungeon makes me want to punt kittens." "l2play noob" would be "perhaps a review of your tactics and abilities is necessary to improve your level of play". My personal opinion is that people are just to lazy to use 3 Dollar words and instead fall back on quick and easy 2cent words. If you really want to insult someone use your brain and be creative chances are the person you are wishing to harm won't even get it.

[McRaffles]

I normally refrain from using most contractions and acronyms when communicating in-game. My kids think that is highly amusing that even when sending text messages, I write the messages out in full, mostly using proper punctuation. If I think that someone has completed an achievement worthy of plaudit, then I will offer up a ‘congratulations’. I do not have a problem with ‘gz’ or ‘gratz’ but I think that if someone has gone to the trouble to nail a hard-to-get achievement, then the least I could do is go to the ‘trouble’ of adding a few characters and typing ‘congratulations’ in full.

~McRaffles (Maxhorn)

[pewter]

Well said salv

And balth I agree there is no easy way to stop it, but awareness of the power of language is important. It is very easy to say sticks and stones, but these days language is one of the most powerful tools we have for change.