Attention all Blogging Personnel

[salvaenus]

Read this! Gief thoughts Plx!

spinksville.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/whiny-post-day-what-would-you-sacrifice-at-the-altar-of-progression/

"But the basis of MMO relationships isn’t the same as with RL friends. Friends in MMOs form because they want more progression and think you can help. That’s the basis of all MMO relationships. In many ways, it’s like being at work where networking and cultivating ‘work friendships’ is important for your career. This isn’t true of everyone, of course, it is possible to wind up with a tight knit group of people who all have similar attitudes and goals and work on your progression together. But you will likely meet because you all wanted to run the same instance, or blast through some quests together, or work on some other joint progression-related goal.

This is why friendly guilds so rarely work in WoW. Everyone can act friendly as long as it suits them, but as soon as they have to choose between sticking with the friends and progressing together or jumping to another guild with faster progression, the majority will jump. Again, it’s very similar to a work atmosphere where no one would ever expect you to delay your personal career for the team."

Thoughts? Blogs? Responses?
Brox

[Nefernet]

I like reading Spinkville.

And about this question, in one hand it's true, every one is looking for something in Wow, and those after progression will do that. I know I did, that doesn't mean I'm not friend any more with people I left behind. But I prefer play at my level without frustration, and keep people in my friendlist to chat, than getting angry at them every night until I ragequit and broke the friendship.

But I think friendly guilds can work, as long as they stay what they are. Friendly guild are for friends, progression guild are for progression. You can have your main in a progression guild and an alt in a friendly guild (oh look, SAN !). To take the analogy of workplace : progression guilds are like workplace, people are there for money, and friendly guild are like volunteering : people are here for helping, to spend quality time with other people.
Except we're not paid in progression guild and we choose to go there, it's not exactly like working for a living...

[salvaenus]

I agree with you that everyone is looking for something in WoW and most times they will find it. For example: The Elwynn Forest Motel on a RP server *shudder* don't go alone!

Now me, I am not the overly talkative kind in game, perhaps because my multitasking ability has gone down with age. So when I chat I chat and when I kill things I KILL THINGS ;D This alone might give people the feeling that I am not friendly but nothing could be farther from the truth. I value the friendship and togetherness in this game more than progression BUT I don't necessarily feel that progression and friendship are mutually exclusive.

What I feel what you are saying is that only unfriendly assholes are capable of playing this game at its highest level (this is naturally hyperbole). Now this might have something to do with your analogy but I don't consider any aspect of this game to be work and if it becomes as such, I'll put it down for a good book. I find that the majority of people think like you do, this: "my friends are in Guild X but my progression fix I get in Guild Y" am I being naive thinking and wishing for an Azeroth where both are possible?

[Nefernet]

Mar 17, 2010 5:52:01 GMT -5 salvaenus said:

What I feel what you are saying is that only unfriendly assholes are capable of playing this game at its highest level (this is naturally hyperbole).

Oh my god no !
I'm realistic, some people are better than others at progression. There are many better players than me, but I know there are lest good players too. For now, I'm in a guild that matches my level of skill, and I'm raiding with them and have good friends in the guild. And I have fun raiding. Of course there are some idiots in it but you can't be friend with everybody.
But I still keep alts in my previous guilds because they are friends and even if they don't play at the same level of nolifeness, I love them. And it helps keeping balance.

[zaeni]

I just think that progression in wow itself is related to the desire to experience new things, the desire to be ahead of the rest, and the desire for the better loot in the game (correct me if i'm wrong).

And therein lies the fundamental flawed assumption with which the article is based on. It assumes that the above desires are inherent in everyone that plays wow. Granted, wow may be built that way, but there are people who don't play that way. Some of us just want to chill, or use gold as a way of keeping score(don't need to raid to do that). Others use it as a social tool, killing foozles a by-product of having fun.

[salvaenus]

@nerfernet I am only capable of dealing with other humans that I, to a certain degree, like. I cannot raid with people who I cannot stand to be around just for the sake of progression. Perhaps that is why I am currently not raiding. What I think we are missing is that progression for some is not just "Teh Killing" of the latest boss available in the game but "Teh Experience" all of these rich wonderful facets that this world has to offer. I personally have not cleared Ulduar, my daughter was born shortly after it was released I have cleared TotC because after my break that was "the thing to do" I would see it as personal progression if one day I could kill Yoggy (May I call you yoggy?) and Algernon or whatever his name be. It is for me progression when, I run through SFK with a group of guild members with whom I have never played with before, perhaps on a character with whom I have little to no experience playing. Widening my perspective on how or what I want to play today rather than logging on, doing dailies, doing my daily HC, heading off to ICC25 to wipe on Prof. P AGAIN...

zaeni Alas I shall never be progressive if yours is the definition that is current of progression. I could care less than a rats behind for the newest loot, Gevlon has proven that gear is but one piece of the puzzle and being ahead of everyone else makes me wonder why am I even running with the Jonses. I think there is a line to be drawn between such progression as you have defined it and those who raid casually but to the most of their abilities. It is okay to be Guild number 21784 on guildox for your server as long as you had fun doing it with people who's company you enjoy. If that is not the case, why do it?

[gnomeaggedon]

Sounds like RL to me... how many people do you know that only maintain friendships based on what they can get out of it... and when that stops, or they get a better offer... bye bye...

I have had a pile of friendships over the years like that... 10-15 years later, you meet them again and can start a friendship again, without the previous "baggage"... then it becomes a real friendship

[zaeni]

salvaenus

Sorry for not being clear, that definition of progression is what i think that wow defines progression to be, not my own definition of progression.

Also i felt the article itself was presenting a flawed argument

Then again, does the playground play you, or do you play the playground?

[salvaenus]

Let us agree to refrain from allowing a multibillion dollar international corporation dictate to us what our goals are in their game Perhaps through losing the fetters around our wrists and ankles we shall achieve a Zen State that allows us to enjoy our time in Azeroth the more.

For the record I think the RP server has fried my brain.

[aleanathem]

I'd agree that everyone has differing points of view of why they play the game, but I believe progression has one true meaning. That's the effort to down bosses and be at them first. I mean how do you call yourself a progression guild if you aren't truly progressing? Progressing normally means you are competing. And no Blizzard isn't setting the meaning of progression. By definition progression is the act of forward movement. I just don't personally see sitting on content that has been down as progression

But in the end it is about what you find to be fun. For some, such as myself, being the first on a server or in the world is a majority of the reason I play this game outside of the people. For others it's just seeing what the game has to offer and hanging out with friends. So have fun and let SAN be SAN. =)

[len]

I entirely disagree! If your aim and reason for playing wow is progression, then fair enough friendships can be hard to maintain within that.

However, I have made a few very good friendships through wow, ones that do not depend on progression. My 'home' guild is a small,social guild, defined by our relationships. We meet up as a large group every year, and many of us visit each other as often as we can. If wow relationships were defined by the raids or instances we run, it wouldn't really be possible to have a relationship outside of the game...

We have managed to build a small raiding team within the guild and do raid regularly, but we are (fortunately!) not particularly interested in 'progression raiding'. We raid together, fail together, laugh together The guild has been going for around 3.5 years now, and people have come and gone, but there has always been a core of 'friends' within the guild who have kept it going.

To say that you cannot build relationships through wow is really just assuming that everyone is in it for the same reason, and wants the same things out of the game.

[labrat]

I think being bloggers means we as a community tend to see things through a certain filter, and that filter is one of people who are so involved in the game that they want to write about it- and the most thorough way to be involved in the game is usually raiding. Most of us are progression-oriented raiders, therefore we will tend to assume that most players think like us in that "fish have no word for water" sort of way. If that were true it wouldn't be so damn hard to find good recruits with the dedication to learning, teamwork, and attendance that makes a solid roster.

From my position, my raiding guild broke up not too long after I joined- but I stayed in the rubble rather than moving on to a bigger, better guild (which I definitely could have) because it was where my friends in the game were and I didn't want to leave them. We rebuilt with a much higher priority on those kinds of relationships- which doesn't happen to most guilds that have this kind of breakdown, I realize. We are doing much better now by that progression yardstick than we were when we were taking in just anyone who wanted to raid and had gear, largely because everyone is a lot more patient with each other and with the raids, which leads to learning rather than tantrums.

However, I would STILL not be here if my priority really were on progression at my skill level as a player rather than those relationships I've built. And were the people most important to me to hang up the game or move on- so would I.